Posts by Doubting Bro

32

The Society Isn't about Money. The Governing Body isn't the Illuminati.

by under_believer in

jw
friends

no, it's not a vast conspiracy for the governing body to get rich.

it's about power and control, but not personal power and control.

the watchtower society is a living, nigh-sentient entity unto itself.

Doubting Bro

Under_believer,

As a whole, I agree with your statements. I don't see anyone personally getting rich off of the WTS and don't think the cash flow is as large as some people would believe. They spend a ton of money on the machine, so despite the fact they are making a killing selling off real estate holdings, they simply reinvest those monies back. Of course, none of us will know for sure since they never disclose anything resembling real financial statements.

You point about the GB is a valid one. If they all died tomorrow, they would simply be replaced. The people in the sucession line are just as deluded as the current GB members. I really think they sincerely believe they were selected by God to do what they do. Not excusing the wacked out doctrines or their lack of humility. But, I would imagine if I thought I was hand picked by God to "lead his people", I'd probably have an issue with humility as well.

You can't kill it and neither can anybody else. Exits from the Society are personal and individual. That's the only way it happens. If the Society dies, it will be a slow senescence, a dying much like that of old age. Many people believe this process is well on its way, and maybe that will bring you hope, if you wish for such a thing, but really that's just not comforting to me, or a hollow comfort at best.

You & I share the same fatalistic view. I'm fully convienced that I'm going to either 1) have to live a lie for the rest of my life or 2) lose much of my family. It's a depressing reality. Coming to grips with the reality the WTS is not how they say they are seems to me to be a grieving process. Personally, I've moved through denial, anger, bargining and am now stuck in depression. I could be way off base, but it seems like your in that stage now.

Things will get better. It will take some time, but it will happen.

39

Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

i unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.

.

i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .

Doubting Bro

I really didn't think much could stun me about the WTS anymore, yet, I had to read the letter several times before it sunk in as to what they were saying. This letter seems legit. Granted, I'm not sure of the context and would love to see the initial inqury to the service desk. However, I really can't imagine ANY context that would generate such a stupid response.

The guy killed multiple folks and committed other crimes and the reason he can't be used in the congregation is because he's a fugitive??? What?

I'm not sure of the legal ramifications or whether clergy are allowed to report such crimes without violating privilege, but there certainly moral ramifications of allowing such a person to run free in the congregation without at least warning members as to what the issues are. I'm sure that's the point Slientlambs is making and its a good one.

2

WTS brain drain

by Doubting Bro in

jw
friends

in reading this board for awhile, i've noticed that many who post here are quite intelligent and were used to varying degrees while in the borg.

yet, you are the folks that felt the need to leave or at least disengage.

when you think about businesses that have been sucessful for a long period of time (not that many because its pretty tough) one thing they have in common is the ability to attract and keep top performing employees, whether they're on the front line or in management.

Doubting Bro

In reading this board for awhile, I've noticed that many who post here are quite intelligent and were used to varying degrees while in the borg. Yet, you are the folks that felt the need to leave or at least disengage.

When you think about businesses that have been sucessful for a long period of time (not that many because its pretty tough) one thing they have in common is the ability to attract and keep top performing employees, whether they're on the front line or in management. After all, for the company to continue running, someone will need to step in when the leaders retire or die. So, lower and middle management (in this case elders and COs) are the pipeline to upper management (starting with DOs and moving on up to the GB).

It seems there is an disproportionate number of highly valued employees here who have left. What effect do you think this is having in the local congregations and on the organization overall. When will the tipping point occur when the pipeline drys up?

30

The Sorrow and the Pity of the Watchtower: denial of DUE PROCESS

by Terry in

nounthe state, action, or principle of treating all persons equally in accordance with the law.

fairness is something familiar to even the smallest child.

being treated without bias is a hunger humanity has fought for in every society; some less successfully than in present day.. in america we are guaranteed fairness when dealing with the state or federal government due to the imbalance of relative power between the individual and the state.

Doubting Bro

Terry,

Terrific points. I believe this is why the WTS will NEVER reform or change. They've called for the end several times, yet they keep on. They've changed more doctrines that probably any other religion, yet they keep on. The doctrine of the faithful & discreet slave is an absolute stroke of genius. They can claim infallibility on one hand, yet say they are imperfect on the other hand.

Narkissos said:

Only massive defections would introduce effective power struggle into the system, and hence moral concern about "due process" would miraculously sprout forth.

I totally agree. I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure what could happen to bring about these mass defections.

Their growth rate is abysmal and they mainly baptize their own children. At that rate, they can't last more than 50 years. I believe they will start running out of money and young talent.

Right, mcsemike. I was going to start a thread about this issue. I really think that the GB doesn't realize the people who are leaving and disengaging are the very ones they can ill afford to lose. The middle management and "star" performers. Businesses who don't recongize when this is happening and take dramatic steps will self destruct. However, the hold on the average person is so great that I think it will take at least two more generations before they really start losing numbers.

32

What if you refused to be disfellowshipped?

by Billzfan23 in

jw
friends

what if you were df'ed for apostasy - yet you continued to show up at meetings with a big smile, slapping folks on the back and shaking hands with them, raising your hand to comment on every paragraph, even being visibly annoyed when you are not called on?

file a restraining order?

lock the door?

Doubting Bro

I just wish they would get rid of the shunning policy. It is harmful and stupid.

Agreed but that's the hammer they use to keep people in. Drop the shunning and I'm willing to bet you'd see a huge decrease in the numbers. I'd DA tomorrow if it wasn't for the shunning policy.

25

DoomsDay as near as 2007

by TopHat in

i was shocked my sister-in-law actually believes this doomsday nonsense.. http://www.satansrapture.com/bannedbook.htm.

Doubting Bro

Wow. I see the JWs aren't the only ones wacked out!!

Seriously, if God has revealed the antichrist to this person, would you really think that He would approve of selling this information???

32

What if you refused to be disfellowshipped?

by Billzfan23 in

jw
friends

what if you were df'ed for apostasy - yet you continued to show up at meetings with a big smile, slapping folks on the back and shaking hands with them, raising your hand to comment on every paragraph, even being visibly annoyed when you are not called on?

file a restraining order?

lock the door?

Doubting Bro

Are they really worth the time & effort? Plus, it would just reinforce the JW mindset that anyone who leaves is demonized.

Live a happy, productive life outside the JWs. That's REALLY annoying!

PS - At the end of the day, it is private property and while the meetings are open to the public, they have the right to "revoke your implied invitation" and ask you to leave. They could get a restraining order and enforce it.

33

Smack the Penguin: Holiday stress reliever

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

here's the ultimate stress reliever.... .

the annual smack the penguin game is back by popular demand!

1.click on the link below.. 2. click once on the snowman to activate the penguin.

Doubting Bro

My best was 322.9 !!

18

False Prophets - Yes or No?

by Clam in

no: "never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions in the name of jehovah.

never did they say these are the words of jehovah.

" (aw 3/22/93).

Doubting Bro

And I actually bought that??? It truly is nonsense.

Given the fact that NONE of their predictions for the future have come true - I'd say Yes

55

A Jehovah's witness - Pioneer

by Fly in

it was a waste wasting 15 years of my life on this false religion.

i've cried when i find out that this religion is bull shit and are false prophets.

i'm a pioneer still and supposed to meet up in service with this brotha tomorr but i'm not going.

Doubting Bro

Fly,

You are not alone. There are several here that are current "active" members, mostly at various stages of recovery. However, one thing we all have in common is that feeling of betrayal and initially, hopelessness and depression. Its been about 8 months since I learned the depth of the problems and became convienced that Jehovah is not using the organization. It still hurts but it WILL get better.

As with the others, my advice would be to take your time, read as much as you can and participate here as you feel comfortable. We've all been where you are now and those who have completely broken free can comment on how well things are going for them now.